Saving Your Sexless Marriage?
Part 5 of 5: Sexless Marriage Cure
Interview By Erik Kampe
We’re here today with Dr. Andrew D. Atwood, the creator
and content expert of www.HopefulSolutions.net
…
...a website dedicated to helping sexless marriage couples to
save their relationship. Welcome Dr. Atwood, and thank you for being
with us today.
Well thanks for having me. And please, just call me Andy. I’m
generally such a casual and forthright guy that I use “Dr.
Atwood” to compensate for my tendencies to be too informal.
Okay, Andy, well tell us something about your website and why
you decided to do this work.
Actually, I was encouraged to take this step by a colleague of
mine, Dr. Bob Huizenga, who has created a very valuable website
himself, http://www.break-free-from-the-affair.com. I’ve known
Bob since 1966 or so, and we have worked at the Center I co-founded
since 1980. Bob spent about a year putting his site together and
was able to reach out and help a ton of people all over the world,
and so I though it would be rewarding to try to do the same in my
area of expertise – saving marriages. Being a pretty right
brained guy with not a lot of tolerance for the constant struggles
you have when creating a busy website, I decided to team with my
son, Dave, who is left brained and very talented with computers.
Dave’s of the generation that grew up with computers and so
this stuff just comes naturally to him. So what we have here is
a team effort, a father and son enterprise.
Why the area of sexuality and saving a sexless marriage? I mean
you’ve no doubt worked with all sorts of people with all sorts
of problems over the course of your career… so why did you
decide to focus on sexuality and saving marriages?
Great question. I’ve got three answers. Two are pretty core
issues to me and my identity, and the third is nothing more than
a happenstance.
The first is that sexuality is pretty important to me as a person.
I’m one of those guys who has enough libido to be hungry much
of the time. My belief at this point is that there are a number
of general issues that all have to line up right for sex to be hugely
satisfying, and I seem to be one of the fortunate guys out there
where stuff lines up. Bottom line is that I simply enjoy sex and
I learned a long time ago that if you can wed your natural areas
of interest with your work you’ll probably enjoy your work.
That’s the first reason, and it has to do with me as a person.
The second is that I’ve been working with individuals, couples,
and families since I graduated from college in 1970. Actually, I
have been working with my own family since 1968, which was the year
my youngest sister contracted encephalitis and my younger brother
died of cancer. 1968 was a hard year in our country as it was, but
it was really hard on our family. I was away at college and everyone
else was back in New Jersey where I grew up. To this day I think
my brother’s cancer was a symptom of his grief over the devastation
that occurred to our sister. Anyway, I watched my parents and my
one other brother struggle with all of this tragedy and realized
that families are living, organic systems. I didn’t have language
for it at the time, but I understood that we are all connected in
some strange and mysterious ways, like a giant and tender web. Pull
on one corner of the web, and the whole web responds. Where am I
going with this? Oh, yea, families and systems. My father was a
minister, and so after college my sweetheart and I got married and
I went to Seminary for three years and became a minister myself.
Scripted, I would say. Anyway, to make a long story short, I was
more of an entrepreneur than my father, and more of a counselor
than a preacher, so I earned a second master’s degree and my
doctorate, both with specialties in pastoral care and marriage and
family therapy, and became a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist
in Michigan. I’ve been at that work since 1974.
That’s two reasons why you got into this work. You’re
a sexy guy, and you, can I say, learned from experience, a sad experience,
that people in families are “webbed” together? Am I with
you?
Yup. Although there are few that would appreciate the first about
me, but many who would understand the second.
How about the third reason? What was that?
In the spring of 2003 there was an article that appeared in Newsweek
Magazine on “Sexless Marriage.” I can’t remember
the title exactly, but the report caught my attention. The focus
there was on how exhausted so many couples are, too tired to have
sex. That is a cultural issue, by the way. Anyway, I read the article,
did the math and some research, and realized that about 17 million
people in America are stuck in a sexless marriage. Now mind you,
I work with couples day-in and day-out, and I’ve worked with
a lot of couples who’s sexual relationship is screwed up (no
pun intended) and yet, it amazed me to read the research and those
numbers. 17 million is a whole lot of people! So I saw a need that
aligned with my interests, and the rest, as they say, is history.
1 – 2 – 3 … You’re a sexy guy who understands
family systems, and you wanted to develop this niche… is that
it?
Ya know, I’m going to say yes to that and just let it go.
Okay, Okay… well tell us what is there that is unique about
your approach? I mean there must be a ton of professionals out there
who are trying to help people with a sexless marriage… what
are you doing that is different?
Oh boy, that’s a great question… and the answer is even
more exciting! Years ago I began reading Ken Wilber, who is like
the hippest philosopher in America today. Ken is my age, lives in
Boulder, and has written a score of very cool books. He is a real
leader in what is called the “Integral Movement.” The
guy’s a genius. He has a model of everything and I have adapted
his model for my work with online sex advice for sexless marriage
couples.
8
Step Program for Getting Unstuck from Your Sexless Marriage
I don’t mean to interrupt, but a “model of everything?”
Yea, sounds pretty grandiose, doesn’t it. But, that is exactly
what Wilber has done. Some years back Ken’s wife died. For
a few years after that, if I recall, Ken hung out in his house,
read a few hundred books, outlined them all on legal paper, laid
the legal papers out all over the floor, stood back and wondered
if there was any order to it all. He came up with this model, an
all-quadrant model. It is actually more complicated and sophisticated
than the adaptation I have, but I do use the essential model he
created.
Look, this is sort of sounding kind of heady… can you tie
this all together for us…like how does Ken Wilber connect with
on-line sex advice and what you are doing through your website.
They all integrate. Get this…
Challenges. I have people come to me with the challenges of their
life and they want me to coach them through their challenges. I
lump these challenges into 5 categories.
The first is the most obvious; at least I think it is very obvious
to most people. There are physical challenges that face couples
who are stuck in a sexless marriage. I had a guy, for example, an
80-year-old guy, email me about how frustrated he is that he is
losing his sexual drive. Until he was 76 he had sex 20 to 25 times
a month, and…
Wait a minute, 20 to 25 times a month? Like that’s 4 or
5 times a week at the age of 76! What’s his complaint?
Well, you have to be a little gentle here. We all want what we
want out of life, and he had become accustomed to having sex with
his wife that many times, and it was really important to him, and
he was rather upset that his desire for sex had dropped to some
level, more like once a week or so. Follow me? He was frustrated
because he wasn’t getting what he wanted. That’s all I
know, or need to know I suppose. Anyway, he figured he had a physical
problem, which is pretty likely. At some point there is typically
a drop in testosterone, and his sexless marriage (which, by the
way, he didn’t officially qualify for) was likely a symptom
of a physical challenge. That’s the first area and it fits
with Wilber’s upper-right quadrant, the truth, the “I.”
Let’s not get too heady here…
Okay, but stick with me. There are physical challenges. Women especially
are susceptible to physical challenges when it comes to sex. When
I started to research the number of nerve and vascular problems
that can occur when a woman has any abdominal surgery, or the screwy
stuff that happens with menstrual cycles or menopause… I can’t
tell you the number of physical problems that both men and women
can face. It’s very real and very much a challenge.
But there are other challenges that can be just as disruptive.
Think of the second, of relationship challenges. That is Wilber’s
lower-right quadrant, the “Its” or the challenges of goofy
systems functioning. How does the system of a relationship work?
Think about it; lots of marriages have relationship issues that
get them stuck. As I’m fond of saying, “We don’t
make love with someone we don’t like.” Communication and
conflict management are big issues in marriages, and we know that
when they aren’t working well, sex usually isn’t working
well either. You understand?
You asking me personally, or what? Just kidding. I get the idea.
There are physical challenges, and there are relationship challenges,
and either one… or I suppose both?… could be affecting
a couples sexual relationship.
Exactly. And then there are cultural challenges. This is Wilber’s
lower left quadrant, the “We” or the area of the “good.”
This is where our sexuality runs up against the rules and roles
of the tribe to which we belong. When we do what is wrong we tend
to carry some shame and grief around our behavior, and that doesn’t
make it easy to relax and have fun with sex. On the other end of
the spectrum, if we are thinking about doing something that is bad
according to our tribe, then we get anxious about what might happen,
and if that doesn’t fire up our sexuality, which it might,
then it might just stifle our sexuality and creativity and boom,
the whole thing goes bust. I think we underestimate the role of
shame and guilt in the field of sexual dysfunction. Just look at
how hard it is to talk about this stuff! Howard Stern has made a
name for himself because he is absolutely shameless when it comes
to sexual behavior. Lots of people listen, and wish they could be
so relaxed about the subject. They live vicariously through Stern.
Howard Stern certainly isn’t my role model, but I must
confess that I find his show entertaining, on occasion.
Yes, and why?
Stuff he talks about, I guess, is stuff I’d like to talk
about but wouldn’t dare. Maybe I am a little voyeuristic?
Maybe. Maybe we all are.
Well, how about the other challenges?
Yes. There are the personal emotional and mental challenges that
are common in every relationship. Think about it. Who gets aroused
when they are clinically depressed, or when they are suffering from
an anxiety disorder? Those are the two big one’s in our world
today and neither one is particularly conducive to a romantic life.
There are all sorts of thoughts that can disrupt a relaxed sexual
encounter. “Stinkin’ thinkin’” is what I call
it. For example, if you are obsessed with some hobby you are into,
and you can’t get your mind off it, then you cannot be present
when you make love. Or, go back to my 80 year old visitor, if you
think you should behave like a 20 year old when you are 80 you are
setting yourself up for trouble. This, by the way, is Wilber’s
upper-left quadrant, the “beautiful,” the inside heart
of a man or a woman. Make sense?
Yea, I’m following, especially with the diagram your drawing.
What’s the fifth challenge?
Spiritual and Energetic. This is the glue that holds all of life
together. If you don’t have enough energy, or if your energy
isn’t aligned well, you don’t have the gas to make love.
This was the focus of the Newsweek article; actually, I just misspoke
myself. My recollection of the article was that the focus was on
soccer moms and such and how we have just become so busy that we
are too tired to make love. I’m talking about that, and more.
We can be spiritually, soulfully drained. Much of our culture today
sucks energy right out of us and we have few ways to replenish that
energy. Since the economy tanked in 1999, and then with 9/11, we
have all had a lot of energy sucked out of us and not a lot has
put it back. The ongoing Iraq war, the stress of the Bush –
Kerry election, global warming is a big issue for me, then the tsunami
that hits Asia… where is the good energy coming from these
days? We can get depressed collectively. All of this is a spiritual
issue as I see it, and it affects our behavior in the bedroom.
Okay, let me summarize what I hear you talking about so that
I don’t get lost. We have five challenges… let’s
see if I can list them… physical, relationship, cultural, emotional
and mental, spiritual and energetic… is that it?
You get an A for the course!
First one ever… cool.
And that is what I am trying to bring to couples that are stuck
in a sexless marriage. There are so many possible issues that are
involved. A couple has to carefully consider all the issues and
work their way out. That’s why I have developed this 8-Step
Program for getting unstuck.
We’re running out of time, so can you quickly tell us about
the 8-Steps?
Sure. Basically, I help people to figure out where they are stuck,
what their challenges are, and then I help them to take a look at
themselves and plot a course that will help them to get unstuck.
I have two ebooks included, and an eCourse that is an adaptation
of the Myers-Briggs temperament stuff, and some answers to common
FAQs… it all works together. It is probably, say… about
400 pages of material. And, it is meant to be worked. I know this
isn’t pabulum; I expect my readers to be smart people who are
willing and able to work at changing their lives.
This, after all, is one of those very important areas of life where
we learn to grow and mature, or else we don’t. I think of a
couple’s sexual relationship as a classroom where people can
learn to be grown ups. And in the final analysis, that is what my
mission in life is all about – helping people to grow up.
Well that sounds like an interesting place to stop. No, actually,
there is a lot more for us to explore around that topic… of
growing up and sex… but we are out of time. Where can people
go to find your website?
www.HopefulSolutions.net.
That’s our home page and our catalogue page all in one. If
we are stopping now, let me thank you for giving me this time. I’ve
enjoyed it.
Terrific. Well Dr. Atwood, thanks for being with us this morning.
Folks, if you’re stuck in a sexless marriage, go take a look
at www.HopefulSolutions.net.
Right there is where you will find some help.
Have a great day!
Orgasm Article Series End.
8
Step Program for Getting Unstuck from Your Sexless Marriage
|
Marriage